92 replies to this topic

[Freebrewer Bmore]

By now I know PGI has amassed enough data for this balance problem to be obvious, yet I see nothing in the new patch fixing it.

Even WE have data, like here:
http://mwomercs.com/...s?t=201605mechs
1st-place finishers: KDK5 - 3,409; KDK4 - 3,619; KDK2 - 3,906; KDK1 - 4,014; KDKSB - 4,440; KDK3 - 5,172
50th-place finishers: KDK5 - 2,044; KDK4 - 2,261; KDK1 - 2,419; KDK2 - 2,424; KDKSB - 2,777; KDK3 - 3,775

...and here: http://mwomercs.com/...t=201608assault
1st's: Victor - 3,080; Zeus - 3,392; Highlander - 3,477; Atlas - 3,674; Gargoyle - 3,733; Highlander IIC - 3,738; Mauler - 3,809; Awesome - 3,913; Executioner - 3,993; Banshee - 4,071; Stalker - 4,080; King Crab - 4,127; Warhawk - 4,162; Dire Wolf - 4,227; Battlemaster - 4,688; Kodiak - 5,488

75th's: Victor - 1,898; Highlander - 1,975; Zeus - 2,081; Gargoyle - 2,102; Executioner - 2,227; Banshee - 2,374; Highlander IIC - 2,391; Stalker - 2,412; Atlas - 2,444; Warhawk - 2,499; King Crab - 2,609; Awesome - 2,636; Battlemaster - 2,660; Mauler - 2,749; Dire Wolf - 2,818; Kodiak - 3,226

Obviously there are some shortcomings of this data into which PGI should have better insight (e.g. we're not sure just how many matches were run with each variant/chassis, and it'd be nice to see numbers from average-ish competitors in addition to the winning outliers), but it's pretty clear that a certain mech is head and shoulders above the rest.

...and in fact, the head and shoulders are all that said mech needs to expose in order to obliterate you in a couple salvos, at any range. It's simultaneously a beastly sniper, a beastly brawler, and a beastly blinding suppressive firer, plus it has enough mobility to frequently choose to engage at whatever range is bad for you and also avoid getting stabbed in the back, and enough armor to outlast multiple attackers if it does get caught alone.

But don't just let subjective nerf whining by myself or others sway you, PGI. Look at the objective freakin' data and freakin' fix the freakin' KDK3. PLEASE! Personally I'd recommend ghost-heating the absolute hell out of CUAC10's when more than 2 are fired AND linking that to CUAC5's (tho you could give the 5's a higher threshold when fired on their own, such that firing 4x5 would incur no ghost heat, but 3x10 or 2x10+1x5 would screw you; might also need to do something later about other configs, but decisively diluting 10's should go a long way toward making KDK3's a less ridiculously infuriating battlefield presence without needing a straight-up quirk nerf).

BTW Disclaimer: I own Kodiaks myself, but refuse to play the KDK3 until it's brought under control. It's a pity, because I really do enjoy dakka mechs. Easymode ain't my thing tho.

Edited by Freebrewer Bmore, 23 August 2016 - 09:55 AM.

[DjPush]

I don't know man... This community freaks out whenever the game gets hard. So what. There is a new mech that has some OP characteristics. If you don't want to get killed by this new mech. Develope a strategy to beat it. I think the kids in this game are too quick to ask the developers to change the difficulty settings on for them by nerfing every damn thing that gets released.

Hey, hey... hey...

Who remebers when video games where so hard that you and your friends would stay up all night, taking turns trying to beat levels or bosses? Grow a pair and some facial hair.

Edited by DjPush, 23 August 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Rakshasa]

I'm not sure if it's the case now, but when I checked the Assault rankings for the event earlier today, 21 out of the top 25 mechs were Kodiaks. There's good, and there's KDK good it seems

[veedubfreak]

I'd love for them to fix the Victor, but the problem is that newer mechs just have better hardpoints, and there's just not much you can do about it until pgi learns how to actually balance without adding new and even more confusing numbers to the equation.

[DaZur]

All men are created equal in the eyes of their creator... Mechs are not.

There will always be apex designs that supersede others. Please let's stop trying to make Porches out of Yugos.

[Freebrewer Bmore]

DjPush, on 23 August 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Who remebers when video games where so hard that you and your friends would stay up all night, taking turns trying to beat levels or bosses? Grow a pair and some facial hair.

Whatever dude. That thing is just stupid-good, and stupid-good is stupid, especially when there's no cost to choosing it. Bad game design.

The thing about bosses is that they're NPCs with a rare, carefully planned presence in a game. Having PC's with boss-level powers that anyone can just choose to play whenever they feel like it makes a game pretty dumb.

Edited by Freebrewer Bmore, 23 August 2016 - 03:47 PM.

[MerryIguana]

DjPush, on 23 August 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Who remebers when video games where so hard that you and your friends would stay up all night, taking turns trying to beat levels or bosses? Grow a pair and some facial hair.

Game Genie user detected.

[Peter2k]

nothing is going to get requirked until Energy Draw has been implemented
well or if people hate it, dropped i guess

[jss78]

DaZur, on 23 August 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

All men are created equal in the eyes of their creator... Mechs are not.

There will always be apex designs that supersede others. Please let's stop trying to make Porches out of Yugos.

Interesting perspective. Personally I think it's OK that the game has the occasional "hard mode" 'mech for people who don't mind an extra challenge, but I think striving for balance should be the paradigm.

As long as there's no real "role warfare", and all we do is shoot other robots on small maps, I think there's only so much you can do with quirks. A 100-tonner with lots of high hardpoints and a cXL400 is going to be good.

Edited by jss78, 23 August 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[process]

The UAC10 loophole was closed, and the KDK-3 doesn't really have major quirks. What nerfs is it supposed to receive that don't affect the whole system?

[WANTED]

This thing is pretty powerful but I don't want to see another mech that people spent good money on get nerfed. I'm all IS and didn't buy a Kodiak but PGI is running off players buying mechs and spending good money to support the development of the game we love with nerfs. I'm a big Victor fan and would love to see it and the highlander get some quirk love but like others said it won't happen now since they are working the energy draw system. Just would be nice to have a fast assault similar to Kodiak but in IS flavor

[DaZur]

jss78, on 23 August 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Interesting perspective. Personally I think it's OK that the game has the occasional "hard mode" 'mech for people who don't mind an extra challenge, but I think striving for balance should be the paradigm.

As long as there's no real "role warfare", and all we do is shoot other robots on small maps, I think there's only so much you can do with quirks. A 100-tonner with lots of high hardpoints and a cXL400 is going to be good.

The problem with striving for equity across all mech and chassis you eventually reach a point of "beige" I.e all mechs and chassis begin to play / feel the same.

I understand and appreciate why we'd want this but at the same Token, I'm one of those players that intentionally play those challenging mechs on purpose.

[Davegt27]

op your sort of jumping the gun

the leader board stats mean nothing without some frame of reference

maybe the leader board numbers are just for our benefit

was the leader board event applied before the bucket system or after
where players computer balanced yes or no

to many unknowns on our side to draw any kind of conclusions

[Lyoto Machida]

DjPush, on 23 August 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

I don't know man... This community freaks out whenever the game gets hard. So what. There is a new mech that has some OP characteristics. If you don't want to get killed by this new mech. Develope a strategy to beat it. I think the kids in this game are too quick to ask the developers to change the difficulty settings on for them by nerfing every damn thing that gets released.

Hey, hey... hey...

Who remebers when video games where so hard that you and your friends would stay up all night, taking turns trying to beat levels or bosses? Grow a pair and some facial hair.

Ahem...those were singleplayer games you're referring to and not games against min/maxed builds online against humans.

[Weeny Machine]

I am not sure either what can be done. As someone said already: the KDK-3 has no major quirks.

Nevertheless I think it is insane that of the top 25 assaults 21 are Kodiaks and of the top 50 assaults mechs 32 are Kodiaks. Bear in mind (no pun intended) this was an event across all weight classes and still the result is so overwhelming in favour of the Bears.

[Chuck Jager]

process, on 23 August 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

The UAC10 loophole was closed, and the KDK-3 doesn't really have major quirks. What nerfs is it supposed to receive that don't affect the whole system?

It is reopened on the PTS with ED. They still have the loophole with Window Fullscreen and a 1 ms macro and less jams than the uac5.

[Alistair Winter]

What if the apex assault mech in the game didn't have any positive quirks at all?

Come at me, Kodiak owner bros.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alistair Winter, on 23 August 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

What if the apex assault mech in the game didn't have any positive quirks at all?

Come at me, Kodiak owner bros.

The Kodiak 3 could not have any quirks and still be the top assault, just like the top medium currently has no quirks. Ironically both rely on high mounts pretty heavily.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 August 2016 - 12:23 PM.

[Steve Pryde]

Even without any quirks it would dominate such leaderboards. The top mounted ballistic slots are the problem.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 23 August 2016 - 12:25 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

The Kodiak 3 could not have any quirks and still be the top assault, just like the top medium currently has no quirks. Ironically both rely on high mounts pretty heavily.

So you agree with me? Or you're saying that it'll be the top assault no matter what, so it might as well have positive quirks?